Railroad connections...

North American Narrow Gauge; West of the Rockies (including Canada; Mexico).
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Randy Hees
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:07 pm

Railroad connections...

Post by Randy Hees » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:08 pm

I have been researching (playing with) a number of small desert railroads in Arizona and California… Starting with Myrick’s Railroads of Eastern California and Nevada, and Hilton’s American Narrow Gauge, Looking for connections. I have found some, and found some possible connections, with lots of maybe’s but fewer hard connections.

This started with the Mohave & Milltown, (note, Mohave is not a misspelling… it is local usage) an Arizona narrow gauge, which Myrick includes in the 2nd volume of the Eastern CA and Nevada books… (and Hilton ignores))… It probably deserves being ignored… it lasted just over a year… starting construction in early 1903, washed out when the Colorado flooded in the fall of 1904… It ran from a ferry landing across the Colorado River from Needles, across the broad flood plane, to Milltown (site of a gold mill) then climbing uphill to the Oatman mining district.

It was proposed as a standard gauge line in 1901… but was ultimately built as narrow gauge… 17 miles long.

The railroad had three locomotives per Myrick. I have identified them as:

No 1, Porter 0-6-0t 2970 Dec. 1903 12x18 class C-S, built new for line, delivered to Needles, CA

From Waterloo Mining at Calico CA, No 2 Sanger Porter962 8x14 0-6-0t 36” gauge 8/1888 class c-s delivered (new) to Daggett CA (see discussion below)

From Los Angeles and Redondo, LA&R No 24, sold July, 1903 to Mohave & Milltown $1,500 + $699 repairs, as well as a combine (likely a Hammond) and some switches (from Brian Norden) (we don’t have any other information on this locomotive… just a reference about the sale, that Brian found in the LA&R records)

The line had an unknown number of flat cars, and a photo shows Photo shows a combine (“California Style”, probably the LA&R car) and a wood tank car frame without tank, with elliptical lateral truss rod washers.

For all the equipment above, there is no known dispositions… another mystery

With the knowledge above, I started looking at the Waterloo Mining aka Calico Railroad, aka Oro Grande Mining Co.

Between Myrick and the Porter Book (see citation below) shows:

No 1 Emil Porter 937 7x12 0-4-0t 36” gauge 6/1888 class b-s delivered to Daggett CA
To American Borax Co #1 (1901)
To Sterling Borax #1 1908

No 2 Sanger Porter962 8x14 0-6-0t 36” gauge 8/1888 class c-s delivered to Daggett CA
To Mohave and Milltown

Per photos, cars are 4 wheel iron body, wood frame cars (similar to V&T/C&C)

A search for possible 2nd hand equipment lead me to the Arizona Narrow Gauge Railroad… (later reorganized as the Tucson, Globe & Northwestern) a proposed 1882 line running from Tucson to Globe (about 100 miles) with aspirations for a connection to the D&RG and Mexico… Ultimately by 1886 the line laid about 10 miles of track and another 30 miles of graded road bed…

The railroad had a “second hand” locomotive, from the Texas & St Louis and 11 flatcars (taper sill, wood transom trucks, likely swing motion, elliptical washers). I was thinking the flats might have found their way to the M&M, but there is limited evidence to confirm that (or to disprove that… of course). The locomotive is reported to have been sent first to Clifton, where it was not used, then sent to a second hand dealer in Los Angeles in 1894… (Alert! Speculation follows) which would be the right time for the LA&R to purchase it… (again, no hard evidence, but it is in the right place at the right time…)

We can also try to trace the ANGR loco back to its origin… and that gets pretty fuzzy as well. It is know to be a 2-6-0… It is said (by Myrick) to be “the former No 27 of the Tyler Tap RR”… additionally “pulled the first narrow gauge train in Texas.” A quick internet study of the narrow gauge railroads of Texas, and a couple of builder’s lists, show, the Tyler Tap railroad only had two locomotives… No 1 and No 2, but the Tyler Tap was later acquired by Texas and St Louis (which becomes the Cotton Belt), part of an attempt to build a greater narrow gauge network… they had more locomotives… starting with 5 from Grant… so the reported number is likely the result of a later renumbering… Also, there is an earlier NG locomotive in Texas, also a National, two years before, which soon after arrival finds its way to the Bath & Hammondsport by 1875… Texas history is full of statements that are hard to support…
Through a CD of builder’s lists from Tap Lines (a really good web site on Southern Railroad History run by Don Hensley) I found 6 or 7 possible National locomotives built for various Texas narrow gauge lines, all 2-6-0 consistent with the ANGR locomotive, and the two photos of it. The traditional story suggests this is:

National 232 (alternately 235) TTRR No 1, Gov Hibbard, a 2-6-0, 11x16, 36” drivers, 36,000 lbs… it may have later been T&SL No 84, the John Krauss… I can’t tie No 27 back to Texas, but my research library is not strong in issues of Texas narrow gauge railways…

What is the best source on the Texas and St Louis or the associated Toledo, Cincinnati & St Louis… or their locomotives or anything about Texas Narrow gauge… Does anyone have anything more on Arizona narrow gauge…

There are other ways to follow this story… The second Porter from Waterloo Mining goes to Sterling Borax, which also has a Davenport, and a IC Hendy loco… and gets folded into Pacific Coast Borax… and the Davenport was reported as being used as a stationary boiler in Death Valley Jct… the other railroad in Daggett (Pacific Coast Borax) has a couple of Heislers that show up on many properties…

Resources used along the journey above…

David Myrick, Railroads of Nevada and Eastern California (Vol 2) (Howell North Books, Berkeley, 1963)

David Myrick, Railroads of Arizona (Vol 1) (Howell North Books, Berkeley, 1975)

George Hilton, American Narrow Gauge Railroads, (Stanford University Press, Stanford, California, 1990)

Porter Steam Locomotives, Light and Heavy, (National Model Railroad Association, Chattanooga Tenn, 2001)

Steam Locomotive Builder’s Lists Collection, DVD data disc, (Tap Lines, www.taplines.com, n.d.)

Notes on the LA&R from Brian Norden
Randy Hees

Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City
Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org
Chasing old trains where ever I may find them...
http://randyhees.blogspot.com/

GregMaxwell
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Railroad connections...

Post by GregMaxwell » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:22 am

Randy,
There is a roster for the Toledo, Cincinnati & St Louis and several other component railroads that made up the "Little Giant" in John Rehor's Nickle Plate book.
Greg Maxwell

GregMaxwell
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Railroad connections...

Post by GregMaxwell » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:40 am

But wait, there is more. Wayne Lincoln in his 3 foot narrow gauge locomotive list, revision 1.8, shows Arizona Narrow Gauge RR #1 as Grant c/n 1489. ANGRR #1, 2-6-0, 13x18 cylinders , 40" drivers, built new for the Texas & St Louis as #27 in 1882.
Greg

Randy Hees
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: Railroad connections...

Post by Randy Hees » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:43 pm

Thanks Greg... This disproves the story that it pulled the first train on the Tyler Tap railroad.

Randy
Randy Hees

Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City
Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org
Chasing old trains where ever I may find them...
http://randyhees.blogspot.com/

GregMaxwell
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:31 am

Re: Railroad connections...

Post by GregMaxwell » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:08 pm

According to Joe Stapac's Cotton Belt Locomotives, The first train on the Tyler Tap RR was pulled by TTRR #1, the "Gov. Hubbard", , built 2-1877. Strapac shows this engine going to Ferroocarril de Zimapan, in Mexico, 12-1887. Wayne Lincoln has this engine as National c/n 232.
Greg

Brian Norden
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: Railroad connections...

Post by Brian Norden » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:30 pm

Some comments:

The MOHAVE MUSEUM OF HISTORY AND ARTS in Kingman, Arizona, has some photos of the Mojave & Milltown. I looked at these a few years ago. The locomotive seen appears to be the saddle tank locomotive seen in the photo in Myrick and the 1903 Porter.

The LA & Redondo minute book indicates that the board voted July 20, 1895, to decline to purchase 11 second-hand cars from Calvert Wilson of Tucson. (My notes indicate that this was explained "due to wharf exp.")

No indication that the LA&R bought a locomotive from Arizona or any any other location after the 1892 purchase of two from the San Gabriel Valley Rapid Transit. These locomotives (LA&R #5 and #6) have not been identified. However, it is reported that a former employee the LA&R said that the company had a ten-wheeler (4-6-0 or 2-8-0); if this is the case it would have to have been one of the two from the SGVRT. The first four LA&R locomotives have been identified to some extent ( two BLW 4-4-0s, a second-hand 4-4-0 and a 0-4-2 tank & tender converted from a Porter "dummy" that came from the SGVRT in July 1891).
Brian Norden

elminero67
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Railroad connections...

Post by elminero67 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:51 pm

This was on Ebay a while back:
Image

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