PacificNG Header
PacificNG Header 

Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Discussion of specific prototype locomotives and other equipment of all gauges.

Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby normhart » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:27 pm

Have you guys seen this?

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthre ... circa-1887

About 150 miles of the C.P.R. Mountain Subdivision set in 1887. :D

Wood burners!!! :D

How far apart should water tanks and cord-wood fuel points be? I seem to remember Curtis telling me that the range of a wood burning locomotive was only about 20 miles. Other reading suggests that coal fired locomotives had about triple the range of wood burners (minimum).

Administrators feel free to move this post if this is the wrong place for it.

Click for full screenshot.
Image
normhart
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby normhart » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:01 pm

Perhaps a better way to ask this question would be; What were the guidelines followed by railroads using wood burning locomotives for the placement of water towers and fueling points? Specifically the Canadian Pacific Railway but almost any rail roads rules would be helpful.
normhart
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby Randy Hees » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:49 pm

There were some variations... depending on how hard you were working, and the size of the tender... Tenders were changed to match both the locomotive and the place they worked... but of course there are some strange situations, like the NCNG which needed a shorter tender on one loco so it could fit on the turntable.

But generally you needed water every 25-50 miles

Wood probably lasted twice as long as water, tenders for coal or oil burning locomotives generally were sized to go 100 miles (one days work per later union rules)

Timetables will tell you the spacing of water towers and fuel locations. Water on a mature railroad was frequently half the typical locomotive's range, so they could skip a water stop if working a light load. Water was also located where water was available... so sometimes the distances were stretched beyond what was desirable... In a few cases (example, AT&SF across the Mojave) water was shipped in by rail when no local water was available.

Randy
Randy Hees

Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City
Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org
Chasing old trains where ever I may find them...
http://randyhees.blogspot.com/
Randy Hees
 
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby normhart » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:47 am

Thanks Randy,

That gives me a general rule of thumb. I'll look at the town locations and try to figure out water availability for any sections that are longer than 20-25 miles between towns. Since the rail road roughly parallels creeks and the Columbia River water shouldn't be an issue. There is some information on fuel availability at many towns and if we are looking at 40-50 or more miles for wood fuel range I'm pretty confident there shouldn't be an issue there either.

Image
normhart
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby Randy Hees » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:30 pm

Nice V scale loco, but we should talk about paint colors... Red was less common than Ward Kimball and his work would suggest... Andrew (the boss around here) has a signature line "end red domes in our lifetime"...

Andrew and I (and a few others including Jim Wilke and Jon Davis) have been working to better, more accurately document paint colors... Browns and greens are more common, red isn't...

I have copied the entire Baldwin Color book... Andrew has the index up at http://www.pacificng.com/pdf/web/viewer ... -index.pdf Individual specification sheets available on line give colors... any style sheet can be provided...

Randy
Randy Hees

Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City
Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org
Chasing old trains where ever I may find them...
http://randyhees.blogspot.com/
Randy Hees
 
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby normhart » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:59 am

Actually, as near as I can tell, the Canadian Pacific Railway had very few American built locomotives. This is just a stand in until someone makes some Canadian wood burners. I merely deepened bdaneal's original colors to something approaching Canadian Red. What we really need is some 2-8-0 wood burners from the 1870's - 80's although they did have both 4-4-0's and 2-6-0's active in the region so far as I can tell.
normhart
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby Andrew Brandon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:01 am

Norm,

I did a little digging into the first Baldwins purchased (new) by the CPRy. The first two orders were for 2-8-0s numbered #312 - #313 on the first order in 1884, followed by #314 - #315 in 1886. Unfortunately for us, the spec page for the first two was skipped in the scanning process. The second order was scanned so we have it for a reference. The #314 and #315 were ordered painted: Black, No Striping. There are some additional notes from the spec sheet that I will need to crop and post later this afternoon. Most of the instructions I read didn't relate to the exterior finish. These notes did indicate that the cab interior should be painted brown.

The first 2-6-0s that went north were painted into their fancy Style 1-esq paint by the V&T shops before they were shipped north. It is possible they were painted Brown with all the fancy striping (like V&T "Dayton" is restored), but newer research by Jim Wilke has lead to the speculation that the V&T was painting locomotives black with some of that striping in the late 1880s.

Here is CPRy "Yale" wearing the V&T Style 1.
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/canadian-pacific-railway-engine-yale

A few years later, the Yale was seen wearing a much simpler scheme.
http://search-bcarchives.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/canadian-pacific-railway-contractors-locomotive-no-1-yale

If you haven't seen them, here is a link that shows off many images from Andrew Onderdonk's albums. Including a series of great construction photos, even showing all of the former V&T locomotives in service building the CPRy.
http://www.kag.bc.ca/exhibitions/allaboard/aoalbum5.html

That flat car looks an awful lot like the Central Pacific flats of the era. I'll pester Curtis about it. ;)

More later this afternoon.
Andrew Brandon - PacificNG Webmaster
An End To Red Domes In Our Lifetime!
User avatar
Andrew Brandon
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Grass Valley, Ca

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby normhart » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:44 pm

Wow Andrew that is a lovely collection and great info.

I'm going to have to rethink what and how to repaint.

Good stuff, thanks!

Further reading leads me to a close connection to the V&T, that is amazing.

CPRw
#1 Yale 2-6-0 V&T Storey - Union
#2 Emory 0-4-0T (SF sea wall) (Vulcan SF? Union?)
#3 New Westminster 2-6-0 V&T Humboldt- Baldwin
#4 Savona 2-6-0 V&T Carson - Baldwin
#5 Lytton 2-6-0 V&T Nevada - Baldwin
#6 Nicola 4-4-0 New - Baldwin
#7 Kamloops 4-4-0 New - Baldwin
#8 Shuswap 4-4-0 New - Baldwin
#9 Columbia 4-4-0 New - Baldwin

I was surprised to recognize the Emory. That locomotive got around.

I really impressed with the "makeshift tenders" shown with the New Westminster and the Nicola.
Last edited by normhart on Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
normhart
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby Andrew Brandon » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:10 pm

Norm,

I've started nagging Curtis about working on some appropriate rolling stock. The flat car he was reworking last year can be used to make many of those early cars in the photos. Even the early boxcars are using the same flat car design as a frame and a body built on top. If you look at the ends of the cars you can see the end sills protrude from the siding. Neat stuff!

After I made my last post I did some further digging and discovered the first Baldwins were actually a set of four 8-28C 4-4-0 built in 1884s. They were painted Olive Green and Color, Style 125. They were numbered 6 - 9 and named: "Nicola", "Kamloops", "Shushwap" and "Columbia".
David Fletcher did an illustration of a Government of Queensland Q12 class (Baldwin 8-18.5C, 1883) which is available over on the Baldwin page.

In the photo of Nicola with the homebrew tender, the locomotive is still wearing factory paint if you look closely.

Here is the "Columbia". There are some really great photographs in the BC Archives.

Hope that helps!
Andrew Brandon - PacificNG Webmaster
An End To Red Domes In Our Lifetime!
User avatar
Andrew Brandon
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Grass Valley, Ca

Re: Query - What was the range of a wood burning locomotive?

Postby normhart » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:27 pm

I did some reading of all the footnotes on the locomotives and had arrived at the fact that #'s 6,7,8, and 9 were new Baldwins. Good to have confirmation and even better to have the drawing! I don't know if my repaint skills are anywhere near good enough though. Looking at the tender on the Columbia it appears as though she still has the factory paint too. There are pictures of the other two 4-4-0s on the album page, further down.
normhart
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:53 pm

Next

Return to Prototype Locomotive & Rolling Stock

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron