Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Discussion of specific prototype locomotives and other equipment of all gauges.
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Curtis_F
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Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by Curtis_F » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:59 am

Here's another Arizona engine!

These scans are from the book "Recent Locomotives of 1886"
Coranada Description.jpg
FIG 106.jpg
Curtis S. Ferrington
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James
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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by James » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:32 pm

That's one of the smallest locomotives of a fairly typical pattern I've ever seen. It'd have rather less TE than a team of good horses, and on a 4 1/2 percent line with ~67 degree curves, I doubt it pulled all that much. At least it wouldn't get tired. Replacing animal power with a small locomotive sounds right up Porter's line of advertising.

Here's a link to an 1889 Porter publication listing their locomotives and other pertinent info, as I don't see it linked on the site here yet:
http://books.google.com/books?id=q5VEAA ... &q&f=false

I notice, too, the 1.75 inch flue size. I'd have expected 1.5 inch flues on such a small loco (baldwin seemed to seesaw between 1.5 and 2 inch flues even on medium size NG engines), but small flues have a reputation for getting clogged and Porter may have felt the intermediate tube size was a better compromise.

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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by John Coker » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:02 pm

As most of you know, the Phelps-Dodge precessors had extensive 20-inch operations around Morenci and Clifton.
The good news is that five of these engines survive, and have been put on display in different Arizona locations. If you don't have a copy, try to latch onto a copy of Finescale Railroader's 2004 Logging, Mining and Industrial Annual, which has an extensive set of articles on this equipment. There is also information on the little-known Hackberry and Iron Queen operation(also 20"), in Central Arizona, near the beautiful little town of Mayer.

After some research it seems that 20 inches was the smallest gauge steam locomotives were made for in North America. Any smaller than that employed battery locomotives. Early mining started with real small gauges, i. e. 18".
Later 30" was popular in many mines, giving way to 36" for bigger operations, like at SIlverton, Climax and the Alaska Panhandle. One copper operation, the Hopewell Tunnel under Jerome, Arizona, had standard gauge tramways underground.

As Andrew and others well know, there was at least one long electric 24" line (2 miles on the surface, I think) between mines around Nevada City.

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Andrew Brandon
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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by Andrew Brandon » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:30 pm

John,

I'll eventually touch on the mining related operations around GV and NC, living in the area has its perks!
Before I get to those however, I'll be writing up a brief history of something even more obscure: Chas. Fowler's logging tramway. This 2 mile logging tramway was seemingly a giant incline powered by a donkey engine. I've found a handful of photos of the thing believe it or not!
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Randy Hees
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Thoughts on horses vs locomotives

Post by Randy Hees » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:38 pm

Using the conventional formula for traction of 25%, At 9,000 lbs in "working order" the best tractive effort that could be expected would be about 2,250 lbs, equivalent to a single 1,500 lb horse... (using the current Humane Society standard of 1.5 times body weight) basically a small draft horse (or large draft mule) or less than two saddle horses in harness...

On the other hand the horses (mules) work best at about 3 miles an hour, while the locomotive would be effective at upwards of 12 mph...

Arizona's heat may have been an issue... for horses and men, but not for a steam locomotive.

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elminero67
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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by elminero67 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:32 pm

I doubt that heat was the reason that the Coronada and 20" gauge Coronado railroad replaced horses and burros, Morenci Arizona is hot, but nowhere near as hot as Phoenix or western Az. With copper mining the only way to make money was to move large quantities of ore. The ore at Morenci at the time was around 10-15% copper at a time when copper was less than 12 cents a pound. Even though it was diminutive, the Coronada and its 16 or so sister Porters helped make Morenci one of the most profitable copper mines in the United States. The Hackberry railroad was also a 20" line in Arizona, but was a scam so it didnt last very long. Right across the border in Mexico there was a handful of very similar operations, owned and operated by the same people. None of them were 20" gauge, but the Imuris Mines railroad was 24" gauge and operated with two Porters nearly identical to the affiliated longfellow/coronado/Arizona copper/Detroit Copper railways

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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by Randy Hees » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:19 pm

What was the length of haul... if much over a mile the locomotives have an advantage... if under 3 miles animals are an viable option...

Animals make better locomotives than we expect...
Randy Hees

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elminero67
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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by elminero67 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:56 pm

Like many mining railroads, they started out with mule power, but within a short time, according to Mallory Hope Ferrill's article in the 2004 Finescale Railroader Logging, Mining and Industrial Annual, they reached the limit of what mule power could handle. The line was originally 4.5 miles long, but it continued to grow. One thing that may have been a factor along similar lines as the "too hot" theory, is the fact that providing feed for a large quantity of livestock in Morenci would have been difficult as Morenci was in a narrow canyon with no room for hayfields. The nearest location for agriculture would have been down along the Gila River near the current town of Duncan, Arizona, about 30 miles away, at a time when it was very unsafe to be away from the few small towns.

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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by James » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:33 am

What was the type and weight of rail on that line? Such a light locomotive could run perfectly well on ridiculously light rails.

The Porter catalogue I linked above indicates it was probably the smallest model available, albeit with larger cylinders than the similar-weight/wheel machine listed in the catalogue due to Porter having increased boiler pressure by 1889. Porter recommends a normal operating speed of 6-10 MPH for this style, which fits precisely in with expectations and would considerably outperform mules over a ~4 mile line, let alone a longer one.

I figure the listed machine had about 120 to 130lbs boiler pressure, plus or minus a little which would suggest a TE of about 1669 (120) to 1808 (130) lbs. So it'll be somewhere in that vicinity. An industrial tank engine is going to have a higher factor of adhesion than a typical locomotive due to having to figure for weight loss as the fuel/water is used as well as the stop-start nature of operation. I figure about a ton of weight between water and wood, a little more actually, but the engine wouldn't normally run entirely out.

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Re: Long Fellow Mining Co. of Arizona

Post by John Coker » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:25 pm

James , I am going to make an educated guess the 20" operations started with 20 or 30 lb. rail. 20 lb was common size for mine rail. It looks like they relegated tthe lighter rail to sidings in later photos and had the mainline laid with 40 lb. - heavy rail for a mine to mouth haul.This indicates they ran a lot of trains. One reason for the heavier rail is that it stands up better to heavy use and breaks less under loads.

Not sure what the source of the rail was but considering the early time frame and the remoteness of the operation it probably came from England-Sheffield and Barrow steel were big importers. Later most of the rail in the West came from Carnegie and Colorado Fuel and Iron.

It has been awhile since I read about early operations, but I think the "Coronada" (#1) and possibly #2, along with the rail and ore cars came around Cape Horn and was hauled in by wagon from Guaymas or San Diego.

The heat issue may have indeed a been problem. As El Eliminero points out, it was very dangerous to venture away from early SW mining camps. Apaches killed wayward miners and freighters sometines less than a mile from such settlements. The mighty Geronimo didn't surrender untill cornered in Skeleton Canyon(on the Arizona-New Mexico line) by General Miles in 1886, making him the last "renegade" to give up. However, my educated guess is as production increased, mechanized transportation was a necessity, so ores could be moved quickly from mine to smelter. Mules stayed underground for a few years longer.

The maps that have been published that do not give a clear picture of the length 20" operations. The original seven mile Coronado RR was later converted to 36" gauge. The extensive 20" trackage or Detroit Copper around Old Morenci lasted at least until 1927, and it amounted to at least a few miles. There were a couple of 1 to 3 mile hauls on the mountain top that sent ore down to bins on the Coronado RR by means of two inclines. That was the last place that the 20" trains ran. Three engines were rescued from this remote location in the 1990s, and put on display. The last regular operation of the 3" trains was in 1932. The outside framed 2-8-0s were steamed up again in 1937 to assist in the conversion of the railroad to standard gauge. One, #20, still exists at the LA fairgorounds in Pomona.

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