8-22C - C&C, SPNG, E&P

Discussion of specific prototype locomotives and other equipment of all gauges.
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8-22C - C&C, SPNG, E&P

Post by Curtis_F » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:11 pm

I am loving my copy of "Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge Locomotives and Freight Equipment" by Robert A. Bader.

Get you one.

On the topic of the 1880s 4-4-0s that Baldwin built...

In the book (pg 131) is a copy of the Baldwin erecting card for the Carson & Colorado 4-4-0s (#1-#8) along with Eureka & Palisades #7. I'm astounded that this drawing exists as it's not part of the DeGolyer collection, which goes to show how private collectors can be hugely beneficial to historical preservation. It's noted as part of the "Doug MacLeod, Herman H. Darr Collection" Thank you guys!!

The first thing of note is that it's really only accurate for C&C #1-3. The suspension between the drive wheel sets shown on the drawing is different on C&C #4 and later engines. It's curious that they didn't update the drawing, or make a new drawing altogether.

The erecting card (#540) shows a bell-crank arrangement through which weight is transfered between the front driver spring and the rear driver spring. The longitudinal rod that connects the front and rear bell-cranks can be seen in the photos of the C&C #1, #2 and #3, however is missing on the other engines. What can be seen on the other engines is a large bolt going through the central area of the "depressed" section of the frame between the drivers. That bolt is documented in other Baldwin erecting cards as the pivot for an equalizer bar, the ends of which tie in vertical bars dropping down from the driver springs.
The #1-#3 are apparent evolutionary hick-ups in Baldwin standardization changes in the 1880-1881 time period, and the erecting card in the book is just about the only evidence of it.

There are also some nice plan drawings by Herman H Darr on pages 27 and 29, though two bits to note is that the Engine Truck wheel base is noted as 60-1/2", which contradicts the erecting cards 60" notation. It's also missnoted that C&C #3 had 44" drivers, when the photo graphic evidence (and as noted elsewhere in the book) shows that it in fact was built with 41" drivers. One thing I'm happy to see is the book correctly states C&C #4 drivers as 44", despite the note on the original Baldwin specification that it was built with 41" drivers. Comparing just a few early photographs of the first four C&C engines and you can clearly see the #4 had larger drivers than the first three.

The erecting card also brings up a question that I can't seem to find an answer for. The drawing shows a bulbous fitting hanging down from the 1st course of the boiler (1st section behind the Smokebox). I've never noticed that feature on an engine before. It's a good 12"+ in diameter and hangs down at least 12" as well. definitely part of the pressure vessel. And it looks like there's an actuation lever going to the tip of it like there would be a valve attached to the bottom of it.

If anyone can identify what that feature is I would be really grateful. Yeah, it's bugging me.


Curtis F.
Curtis S. Ferrington
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David Fletcher
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Re: 8-22C - C&C, SPNG, E&P

Post by David Fletcher » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:42 am

Hi Curtis,
Interestingly our Queensland 8-18 1/2 C 4-4-0s, built in 3 batchesd between 1881 and 1885 had the same 'cradle' chassis design as you show in your detail. I drew up these Queensland 4-4-0s earlier in the year based on the surviving erection card held at DeGolyer, look at the Baldwin styles examples in this Pacific NG web site, were all 3 versions of the Queensland A-12 4-4-0 are uploaded. I think the frame much simpler than the 1870s typical 18-C frame, which kinda strapped along the sides of the firebox as bars at two levels. In this design, the firebox pretty much just drops into the cradle chassis from above.
Some of the Moguls of this era had that chassis concept as well, see the SPC 2-6-0 drawing in a couple of Bruce's books, original drawing of that is at the Smithsonian.


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