PacificNG Header
PacificNG Header 

V&T wooden ore cars

Discussion of specific prototype locomotives and other equipment of all gauges.

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby Solomani » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:20 pm

Using the 98 inch wheelbase for a Baldwin 8-22C that Curtis F. shared with us I went back into Sketchup to see if I could rectify the Candelaria trestle photo and get a wheelbase for these cars. It was a little difficult largely because I am not yet very good with rectifying photographs but also because trying to find lines that are in the same plane that are usefully long enough to accurately set vanishing points of the computer "lens" to the camera lens. After much fiddling, I was able to get measurements that did not grow or shrink as I moved along the train (for the most part anyway.)

The end result is that with the drivers set to 98" the tender truck wheelbase appears to be 3'8" and the flat car appears to have trucks that have a 4' wheelbase. Does anyone know what type of trucks these are?

If I got it right then Dale Darney was right (as if I should have doubted him) and the ore cars have a 4 foot wheelbase. I did note that the pedestal timbers on car number one does not match the overall length of cars 12 and 13 and is a little longer for both the pedestal timber and the dump box sill.

Thank you to Curtis for the accurate info on the wheelbase of the locomotive. It would be neat to figure out which engine this was but that info may be lost forever.

I did spend some time last night flying around in Google earth. That program just gets better and better. I found what I think is the location of the trestle. if I ever get around to building in Sketchup that 292 foot long 50 foot high trestle it would be fun to upload it into Google earth.

Cheers,
John
C&C flatcar 100 truck.jpg
What kind of truck is this?
Solomani
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:30 pm

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby Brian Norden » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:42 pm

Couple of items:

The Nevada State Railroad Museum has a display in its main building with (I believe) Dale Darney models of the 4-wheel dump cars. Above the model is a reproduction of a plan of the ore cars with a Rolston (sp?) Iron Works title block.

Andrew, thank you for passing on the link to the image at UNLV.

There may be another view from a further distance of the Mt. Dablo Mill at Sodaville that would show the dump cars in side view. This past week I saw a Xerox display copy at Nevada Historical Society; they have several views of the mill (maybe all by the same photographer) both under construction and completed. I was going to try to get digital images -- but, the fee schedule is prohibitive.

Brian Norden
Brian Norden
Brian Norden
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby Solomani » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:23 am

Brian,

Thank you. Even though it was staring me in the face with the photo that Andrew posted it did not hit me until reading your post that I can likely get a second confirmation on the wheel base from the Virginia City photo since both cars are in that photo and it looks like there is enough detail.

I believe you are right that the iron cars were made by the Risdon Iron Works out of San Francisco and the pedestals do look very similar. Charlie Seibenthal, when I talked to him last, said that he, Dale and others were not able to get any info on the builders of the wooden cars or where the parts might have come from if they were assembled by the V&T.

I think I need to make a trip up the Nevada Historical Society.

Thanks again,
John
Solomani
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:30 pm

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby Solomani » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:57 am

I was just surfing around on http://www.virginiaandtruckee.com/ and saw that according to that sites rolling stock inventory that as of 1 July 1870 the V&T had 17 wood dump cars and the notation is that they were made at the Car Shop. I assume that the Car Shop is the V&T car shop. They had one at Virginia City. virginiaandtruckee.com also mentions that 15 Iron dumps were made at the Car Shop and 25 were made by the Risdon Iron works.
Solomani
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:30 pm

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby Andrew Brandon » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:33 pm

John,

That truck I have had heard referred to as a "Bliss" truck. Herman Darr mentioned this to me once but I can't remember the specifics, essentially it is named after its designer, the Bliss family built and operated the Carson & Tahoe Lumber & Fluming Co. (Lake Tahoe Narrow Gauge). The 100 series of C&C flats are the Lake Tahoe Narrow Gauge cars that wound up on the C&C. Herman Darr has done an excellent drawing of these cars if you do not have a copy I suggest you do.
Andrew Brandon - PacificNG Webmaster
An End To Red Domes In Our Lifetime!
User avatar
Andrew Brandon
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Grass Valley, Ca

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby Solomani » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:58 pm

Andrew,

Thank you for the identification. While I have heard his name before I dont think I have met Mr. Darr. Does anyone know how to contact him?

-John
Solomani
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:30 pm

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby Andrew Brandon » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:14 am

John;

Herman is very low tech and does not have email or access to a computer yet. One of these days I'll get around to getting him setup with something. For now the best way to reach him is by phone: Herman Darr: (530) 265-2137 he keeps himself publicly listed in the white pages for this reason.
Andrew Brandon - PacificNG Webmaster
An End To Red Domes In Our Lifetime!
User avatar
Andrew Brandon
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:37 pm
Location: Grass Valley, Ca

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby MAC » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:32 pm

The July 1 1870 Rolling Stock account notes that there are 17 Wood dumps, made at Car Shop @ $565 each, value $9605.00. Nos 1 - 17.
The July 23, 1873 report of cars on hand still shows 17 wooden ore dumps, Nos 1 - 17.
The Feb. 27, 1874 list of Iron Ore Dumps has Nos. 1-25 and 44-123 for a total of 105 Iron Ore dumps.
The July 1877 list of Wooden Ore Dumps in use has, Nos. 0,26,27,29,32,34,35,36,37,42, ave weight 6923#. These numbers are interspersed into the Iron Ore Dumps numbers in the 1874 list. A note next to this list says "Sold to CCRR", but no date.
Mike Collins
MAC
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:24 pm

Re: V&T wooden ore cars

Postby MAC » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:23 am

The Car Shops would be the Virginia City shops.
MAC
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:24 pm

Re: V&T ore cars

Postby Randy Hees » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:03 pm

From what I can tell, the V&T had two groups of 4 wheel ore cars tradition wood side dumps and iron bottom dump "pot hoppers" (built by both Risdon and by V&T shops) some of both groups were converted to narrow gauge... There were also both standard gauge and narrow gauge 8 wheel dump cars, but it is not clear (or in my opinion not likely that the 8 wheel narrow gauge cars were converted standard gauge cars, instead new construction)

14 of the wood side dumps were converted to 3' narrow gauge for the C&C and were used on the Candelera Branch (there were also 3 or 4 8 wheel wood side dumps (no 4, 6, 8, 10???)

Some of the iron bottom dumps were converted (or newly built) for the 30" gauge Empire Mills Railroad, photos in Ferrell's Virginia & Truckee, p 104-105)

Others were apparently converted to 3' gauge for use on the Inyo Development Co railroad at Keeler (pulled by a former Bodie and Benton Baldwin built 2-6-0 carrying a "rebuilt by V&T shops" builders plate...

Charlie Sibenthal is the expert on the iron 4 wheel cars... There are jokes about his multiple hour talk on the cars including how to identify which group they are in based on rivet patterns... based on a lots of research, much knowlage, and many photos... Great information if you want to understand the cars...

Randy Hees
Randy Hees

Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City
Railway Preservation News http://www.rypn.org
Chasing old trains where ever I may find them...
http://randyhees.blogspot.com/
Randy Hees
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:07 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Prototype Locomotive & Rolling Stock

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron