Death Valley RR Steel Hoppers

[Randy Hees]

I spent some time at the Smithsonian in their trade literature collection. Included were a number of catalogs from Kilbourn & Jacobs, and included in several were their steel hoppers...

K&J Quarry Equipment, Smithsonian Museum of American History, Trade Literature

I believe the model 619 is the cars purchased by Death Valley RR, later to Arizona.

Randy

[Rich Dunn]

Randy,

I believe the Kilbourne & Jacobs catalog page you posted is from their catalog #65, and as far as I know it is the only published image of the style 619 hoppers. From what I can determine the catalog cut shows a car similar to those sold to the Eureka Hill railroad in Utah. These cars were basically identical to the ones found out at Pioche, Nevada except the Pioche cars were not equipped with air brakes. If you compare photos of the EH and Pioche cars with the Death Valley R.R. hoppers you will see that the death Valley hoppers had a larger capacity with higher sides. However, I would assume that K&J still identified the Death Valley hoppers as style 619 designs.
Rich Dunn

[Randy Hees]

Hi Rich, yes, the cut shown above is from catalog No 65 (1913). I also found a cut of an differnt version of a 619 car, with link and pin couplers in a 1919 industrial catalog... shown below.

From Kilbourne & Jacobs 1919 Industrial Catalog, Smithsonian Museum of History, trade literature collection

Randy

[Loco112]

The two specifications have the height 1/4" taller/shorter.

(Parts, or spring sag?)

By studying the construction and design of these, in the few good photos and promo sketches that exist of these, it appears that the center beam of the frame on these hoppers is an open box made of what appears to be two beams that are about double the height of the (easily seen) side sill beams. This is to allow an unobstructed dump shute down the middle. The center frame on these cars is the area that info is seemingly not available on. There are a couple of photos of the K&J hoppers that lived at the Montana Southern (30") RY, that also show the large center beams, but sadly those cars were scrapped a couple of gears ago. I so wish they would have saved 1 and just let it rust! We might never figure these cars out without having one to look at.

in order to figure these out someone might have to scale the two K &J promotional pages and see what is learnable by putting in the known dimensions. That center dump area might still not be revealed very accurately by this method of deduction. Its the worst way to figure these things out, but it might be the only way still available.

[Loco112]

Does anyone else see, in the catalog page, that the center beams might be stacked two beams high on each side of center? I see rivets where the top center beam stops short in the middle of the car.

So maybe the draft center beam is typical, and there is just a second beam added above and just a few inches wider and outside each of the typical center beams that make the open box section frame. So maybe its not too complicated, just double beamed around that central dump.

[Loco112]

I found it. K&J called that just barely visible beam a "body support" and it was an 8" channel. It ran from "bolster to bolster" and was riveted to the sides of the hopper shute. That helps.

I found that in a written specification for those hoppers that Rich Dunn has shared.