Who Made It?

Discussion of specific prototype locomotives and other equipment of all gauges.
Jeff Livingston
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:08 am

Who Made It?

Post by Jeff Livingston » Fri May 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Gentlemen,

This photo is from the 14th Naval District Collection dated 1919 at Pearl Harbor. I've cropped and autocorrected the original. Any idea, based on the design of these boxcars what company they may have come from?
BX-3P PHOG_NO 2480 Cropped.jpg
Jeff Livingston

Brian Norden
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Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Brian Norden » Sun May 12, 2013 9:56 am

To Jeff and our webmaster --

Something seems to have happened to the illustration. I do not see it and I get the message: "The selected attachment does not exist anymore."
Brian Norden

Brian Norden
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Brian Norden » Sun May 12, 2013 10:58 pm

The image is now viewable.

Interesting, these are outside framed box cars. Not unusual for the time period.

Now what I'm going to present may or may not apply to these cars. I have a disk that I purchased several years ago from Westerfield models. It has a collection of ACF builders photos and a lot order list from 1899 to 1957. Looking at the list during the World War I years there are a number of orders by the U.S. Government. Of particular interest are two orders entered with the date 7-1-1918:
ACF_USGov_3FT.jpg
This shows 25 3ft gauge box cars and 5 3ft gauge flat cars built for the U.S. Government. Could these be going to Hawaii? Where else would the Government have 3'-gauge trackage needing this kind of equipment; certainly not a construction line.

The photos on the disc do not include this order.

The Wilmington, Delaware, plant seemed to be the builder of export cars at this era. It was also the plant that built the Tweetsie vestibuled, narrow-gauge passenger cars.
Brian Norden

Jeff Livingston
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Jeff Livingston » Mon May 13, 2013 8:51 am

Thank you Brian,

I believe Puget Sound Naval Shipyard also had a 3 foot gauge system but I have not confirmed this as fact. I've got my hands full with Pearl Harbor and the OR&L. Mare Island may also have had a 3 foot gauge system at the ammunition depot only. Gregg supplied both boxcars and flat cars to Pearl Harbor based on original Gregg builder's photos, courtesy of Mr. Richard Gregg, and we have a Gregg drawing of a boxcar matching the various photographs dated 1914 from NARA as well as a few unidentified flat car drawings and a number of appliance drawings. The Gregg cars have steel bracing while these have wood, shortage of steel due to WW1 possibly? In any case ACF is a definite possibility.

Jeff Livingston

Jeff Livingston
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Jeff Livingston » Mon May 13, 2013 4:36 pm

Contacted Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. Their response to the gauge question was that the railroad there was always standard gauge. Of course, being ordered by the "U.S. Government" rather than a service entity such a Bureau of Yards and Docks they culd have gone anywhere. The Army also had their own equipment.

Jeff Livingstopn

Brian Norden
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Brian Norden » Mon May 13, 2013 8:24 pm

For what it is worth the Smithsonian has records and photo albums from the ACF and former Jackson & Sharp operations in Wilmington, Delaware.

JACKSON AND SHARP CAR COMPANY AND AMERICAN CAR & FOUNDRY COMPANY RECORDS, 1884 - 1948

This webpage notes that the Delaware State Archives has about 3,000 negatives from J&S and ACF operations. Some of these are on-line. The Delaware Public Archives website has 4118 J&S/ACF images on line. Cannot find any images from these or other government car orders.

Here are links to a export order going to Chile little bit later:
http://cdm16397.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ ... 463/rec/21
http://cdm16397.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ ... 464/rec/22
The cars look to have a similar construction style -- does not mean anything for others could be making similar cars.
Brian Norden

dsp&p_fan
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:33 pm

Re: Who Made It?

Post by dsp&p_fan » Sat May 18, 2013 6:21 pm

Because of the way the side framing is attached, I think we're looking at flat car conversions. Sophisticated conversions, but still conversions.

Jeff Livingston
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Jeff Livingston » Sun May 19, 2013 11:38 am

Gentlemen,

Located another photograph in the 14th Naval District Collection dated 1918 of what appears to be the same boxcars.
PHOG_NO 2342.jpg
Marked "KUAHUA" these cars were assigned to the naval magazine on Kuahua Island which may explain their predominately wood construction. While they resemble some of the early flat car to boxcar conversions of the OR&L, and both the Navy Yard and the OR&L were capable of such conversions, my gut feel is that these are "as built". Can't rule out conversion though without more documentation.

Jeff Livingston

Rich Dunn
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Rich Dunn » Mon May 20, 2013 7:34 am

Jeff,

You might also consider Magor Car Company. Magor built a good deal of export equipment and a fair number of cars for the military.

Rich Dunn

Jeff Livingston
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Who Made It?

Post by Jeff Livingston » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:16 pm

Still don't have the answer but found another photo today of three of these wood outside braced boxcars freshly assembled at Pearl Harbor dated 3 October 1917.

Jeff Livingston

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