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Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Discussion of specific prototype locomotives and other equipment of all gauges.

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Loco112 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:40 pm

I am wondering how universal are the lettering and paint details that are posted on the HDS page about the 8-18C? Would they be the same as most all the other little Baldwins of that same time period, regardless of the road name (unless the road asked for their own fonts and lettering)?

Here is your HDS link, http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=commerce /hds/index.htm
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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Andrew Brandon » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:39 am

The Baldwin style system allowed for striping and other arabesque elements to function in a universal sense. Combinations of various stripes would create new styles, often for new customers. While Craig is currently unable to get online and respond, I can provide some insight. The lettering typefaces he's provided do match many of the lettering styles we've seen on Baldwin's of the period. Essentially, we scoured our sources for every photo we could find and Craig worked out lettering sets from that. There are certainly variations that would have occurred which he's not covered, but those might have been specifically ordered by a road. We noted there were 2 distinct Baldwin lettering styles applied by the shops during the 1870s, the "NPC" style as seen on "Sonoma", and the type on "Eureka". The style used on Eureka is also seen on Santa Cruz RR "Jupiter" in historic photographs. Craig's work does cover about 99% of the "generic" Baldwin market around 1872-1880 or so. The tender panel for style 1 is shown on Craig's artwork, the second set of striping (plain gold) would represent a much later scheme. Style 1 would be the generic passenger scheme applied by Baldwin during the 1870s. Freight locomotives would have worn Style 2 up until the styles change in the late 1870s to Style 49 and 50 (49 is passenger, 50 freight). Craig has intended to get these schemes built up over time, I know he needed components of 49 for a project of his own.

All of this work of course was done to assist with MMI's project bring out the 8-18C in On3/30 which sadly has stalled. Craig, Randy H, Kyle W, Myself and others put together tremendous resources for this project, which, would have used the HDS decals to go above and beyond what the model came with, providing for accurate lettering for almost any road that would have ordered the classic 8-18C design.
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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Solomani » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:29 pm

I know the info is out there in the aether world of the net but i am having trouble finding it.

What is the coupler pocket centerline height off the rails for the tender coupler?

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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby James » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:06 pm

I copied down the specs from the spec sheets provided by degolyer for the 8-18C drawing 10 in the same format as used on the spec table posted elsewhere on this site for various versions of the 12x16 or 18 Baldwin. As with all the Baldwin 4-4-0's, certain dimensions (such as driving wheels) had various options available.

8-18C drawing 10
Gauge 36 inches
locomotive: Fulton County Narrow Gauge #4 (1882)

cylinders: 12x16"
Drivers: 41"
Journals: 5.5x7"
Frame: Inside

Boiler

Style: cb wt
Diameter: 38"

Tubes

Number: 113
Diameter: 1.5"
Length: 8' 9 3/4"

Firebox

Length: 47 15/16"
Width: 24 5/8"
Depth F: 45" B: 44"
Grate Area: 8.2 sq. ft.

Wheel Base

Rigid: 7' 2"
Driving: 7' 2"
total: 18' 3"

Truck

Wheel: 24"
Journal: 3.5x6"
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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Loco112 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:06 am

Arund the 8-18C's time, the coupler and shank centerlines early standard was 24" in coupler centerline height.

Later the big NG RR conventions voted to modify some of the earlier standards, as the equipment got larger and stronger, and the change to 26" (for 3' gauge) was one of the changes.

That has been the standard ever since.
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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Solomani » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:19 pm

Loco112,

thanks, that is just the info I needed.

-John
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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Loco112 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:43 pm

I remember reading somewhere that the old 1880 4-4-0's had originally been built with frames that resemble a stack of leaf springs as used on our highway and work trucks rear leaf suspensions. The 8-18C SONOMA and EUREKA both seem to have regular "bar" type frames, just like all the other Baldwin NG locomotives that we look at.

So, was the "flexi-flyer" multi-layer frame replaced with the now standard bar frame at some point on these locomotives or were they originally bar frames and I am just confusing myself by thinking of an earlier locomotive and frame design.
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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Loco112 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:37 pm

One other "left Field" question for you early Baldwin experts.

I found that Walshaerts gaear only came along to Baldwin in 1905, so none of the 8-18C locos were built with the gear, but were any of the 8-18C locos converted to an outside valve gear during thier lifes?

Outside, as in; Southern, Walschaerts, and later Baker?
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Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Postby Randy Hees » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:03 pm

The narrow gauge 8-18c locos all had conventional bar frames. I believe that the flex beam frame design was long abandoned when Baldwin adopted the class system to describe locos about 1873.

I have never seen anything on one of these being converted to a more modern valve gear. These were small engines, with lower boiler pressures (I don't know of any being superheated) which by 1900 were clearly in secondary uses, and unlikely worth the investment.

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