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Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:17 pm
by CraigH
This is the "Great Baldwin 8-18C Data Thread".
The Lowdown and intro:
Yesterday Randy and I were contacted by the NWPRRHS to put together a talk for one of that group's Whistlestop gatherings sometime in 2010. The topic will be the Baldwin 8-18C's.

Over the past couple years a group of us put together a truely vast archive of information on the locos for PSC/MMI and the development on thier model of the loco.

What a great excuse to consolidate and organize the data so we can finally share it with everyone. We've already started contacting a hard hitting group of folks on the subject, several still need to be added. We also will be welcoming additional Contributors who would like to participate. We want the finished product here on, with the possibility of expanding it to a publishable format, either in serial magazine form or as a book. NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN WORKED OUT YET.

We will be expanding in areas we haven't looked yet. Of interest is generating proformance information on the locos from whatever we can find from specific roads, we need to cover the export versions and those built for other than 3 foot gauge (You bet they were made!). We will be looking more closely at the varients over the life of Baldwin production of the 8-18C's.

Expect Randy to have an outline defining the project shortly.

Craig Hoefer

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:56 pm
by Randy Hees
Here is my working notes on the talk...

Define the locomotive

A Baldwin Narrow Gauge wagon top boiler 4-4-0 with 12” diameter pistons…

(Insert here, why we are interested)
Widely used here (northern CA) (dominate design?)
In Northern California
Sonoma Valley (8-18.5c)
Colusa and Lake (8-18.5c)
(include other railroads later)
Three survivors
Really pretty
Models available

Back to defining the locomotive

Baldwin’s Class System

Baldwin Plans
Show that not all 8-18c locomotives are narrow gauge, or have wagon top boilers

Other 4-4-0’s
Moguls, consolidations, Talk about NPC 1

Other Baldwin products of interest

Other Locomotives (Mason, Porter, Union Iron)

Discuss Who used it (and when)

In Northern California
Sonoma Valley (8-18.5c)
Colusa and Lake (8-18.5c)
(Complete list of original engines)

Elsewhere in US and world
Create a map of US with distribution, different color for new and used.

Second owners (this is a big subject)

(This may be a better place to talk about the very similar National 4-4-0’s)

What could it do

Pulling power
Compare to other locomotives
Calculate cars on various grades
California narrow gauge railroads were better built, so it was more successful here
Discuss long life in CA, short in Colorado

What did they look like – tracking changes

Builders Paint, and standard striping styles

As they got repainted
Different approaches
NPC, gradually simplifies builders paint
SPC, paints into current Baldwin practice

Later paint (SP/SPC, NS, NWP)

Baldwin changes

Changes while in use
Air brakes
Cabs (Olema wrecked new cab)
Finally NPC 20 and 21

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:58 am
by dsp&p_fan
I know of two local roads which operated 8-18Cs (or similar...I haven't found specs to see if they are or not)

-The Cincinnati Northern (later Cincinnati, Lebanon, & Northern after the collapse of the Little Giant)
-The Cincinnati, Georgetown, and Portsmouth Railroad

-I tend to recall, but can't find it in a book, that the Cincinnati and Eastern Railway had 8-18Cs. The Cincinnati and Westwood (incorrectly listed as Cincinnati and Westward in the DeGloyer Library files) had the equivalent mogul (8-16D or 8-18D).


Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:40 am
by dsp&p_fan
Here's the basic info on the two CN 4-4-0s:

Cylinders: 12"x18"
Engine Weight: 42,650lbs
Drivers: 42"

#1 Baldwin Const. #4207
New as Miami Valley Ry #1, "Warren County". 12/1877. Price: $4,067,46. Acquired by Cincinnati Northern along with MVRy assets. Became TC&Stl #2. Became Cincinnati, Lebanon, & Northern in 1885. Sold to the Wm Farrell Lumber Co/Little Rock Saline River & Western circa 1893-1895.

#2 Baldwin Const. #4292
Ordered by Chicago & Tomah, 1/1878
Then Miami Valley Ry 3/1878 (not delivered)
To Eastern RR of Long Island "Leila" at Bar Ridge, NY 7/1879
Cincinnati Northern #2, "Manhatten" circa 1/1881
Became TC&Stl #4
Became CL&N #1 in 1885
Sold ca. 1893-1895

Source: Narrow Gauge in Ohio by John W. Hauck

According to John Rehor's The Nickel Plate Story, these were the only 8-18Cs on the Little Giant. The other six Baldwin 4-4-0s on the TC&Stl roster were 8-16Cs.


Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:17 am
by Randy Hees
Wonderful, two locos not on my list.

They are 8-18.5c 9 and 8-18.5c 10, both built to 8-18c dwg 4, the classic west coast special (our term, never used by Baldwin as far as I can tell)

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:01 am
by dsp&p_fan
So they were 8.18.5Cs, great! I like connections between well researched/documented roads and more obscure stuff. Makes it much easier to learn about the obscure stuff.

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 3:16 pm
by Randy Hees
I am busy updating the spread sheet and found a third... this one for New York and Manhattan Beach, also built to plan 4. The three locos were all listed together on the class list, with dittos in the plan column... so I went right by them.

I have found a couple of shays owned by Ferrell lumber.

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:01 pm
by Curtis_F
I was asked to compile a list of all the 8-18C drawings that I knew of, and I've finally gotten around to doing it: Baldwin 8-18C - Surviving Drawing List

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:49 pm
by Andrew Brandon
Wonderful! :shock: I'll get it on the site later this week.

Re: Consolidating the Baldwin 8-18C Data

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:59 pm
by jessebanning
Hi all. My name is Jesse and I'm new to the board. I own a business in Las Vegas Nevada building live steam locomotives ( Our current project is a 2-1/2" scale Eureka and Sonoma. I've acquired all the drawings from the CSRRM and cleaning them up so they are legible and having them plotted on a "D" size drawings. I have all the drawings Curtis listed and are acquiring restoration drawings as well.